Danica is a Mum of three. She has a three-year-old, a five-year-old, and a six-year-old. Danica has lived in Austria for almost seven years. She runs a thriving Instagram page called Diverse Kids Lit, where she regularly shares diverse books for kids and content related to black history. Danica is a woman on a mission. Keep reading to learn how she’s working to increase representation and change the perception of black people.

---

Tell me about yourself.

I’m an attorney. I studied law in New York and took the New York bar. I worked for an international law firm in Manhattan for a few years and that’s where I met my husband. Since coming to Austria, I do consulting work, usually for international organisations. I was off of work for a few years because of my kids being back-to-back but now since a year and half ago I’ve been back into the workforce with the consulting.

And, you speak German, right?

I learned to speak German here. A lot of people ask, “Oh, so you must have studied it in high school or in college.” No, I couldn’t even say basic things because I remember when I was dating my husband and he would say things or talk with his friends in German. I was just like, “Oh, there’s no way!” I learned Spanish in the States but I was like, “German is just not going to work.” It was a challenge to learn the language but now I’m fluent and I actually also work in German.

What are some of the challenges associated with living in Austria?                                     

I’m originally from Michigan but I studied in New York which is a very diverse place and it’s very international. Even in Michigan, where I’m from, there’s a lot of black people. In Austria, that’s just not the case at all. I grew up in a lot of white spaces in school and also when I was an attorney at the law firm that I worked at. But It was different because there was always a group of black people or people of colour that you could kind of talk with and be with. And, you would see it. You’d see black people on the news. You’d see black doctors. Like, my mother was a business woman

Coming to Austria especially seven years ago you just didn’t see any of that. You only saw negative things. So, you would see signs during Christmas of black people from Africa who needed help. I didn’t even realise how that affected me until we were out with a group of friends and someone made a comment about African nations needing so much help. I was like, “Actually, there are many thriving people and businesses in Africa.” And then the person looked at me like I was an alien because it was always in their face, all these negative images and negative programming.

So, that’s been a challenge. Although, I’ve been fighting against that and working to bring awareness to positive images of black people in Austria. And I’ve been doing that since my time here and now it’s coming on a public forum more.

How exactly have you been fighting against these negative perceptions of black people?

So, I’m working with one of the largest libraries in Vienna to help them diversify their base and increase their collection of diverse books. Also, in my kids school just being there, representing, showing up, being active and taking roles.

My Instagram stories play a big role too. They’re a way to showcase positivity. So, people can keep having these positive reinforcements to negate the negative ones that are so prevalent. I want to show black people not just doing the stereotypical black people stuff that people want to throw at you all the time

Yeah, that was interesting when you showed a video of you skiing. You got quite a lot of comments based on that, didn’t you?

Oh, wow yes! Comments like, “Oh, it’s so cool. I didn’t know black people could ski.” They call it microaggression. But again, it goes to deeper things. I often wonder, do people not understand that black people are just like them. We have legs, we can learn to ski if we choose. We are just as human as everyone else.

Do you think it’s harmful for your kids to grow up in a society where they aren’t represented? Because, I had the same thing when my kids lived in China so I just wanted to hear your take on it.

My daughter is the only black girl in her class and I think in the whole school there might be like one other. So, yes, I’ve thought about this and we have had conversations about whether or not to move her to a more diverse school. Then I get back to the point that we’re in a homogeneous society here in Austria, and that’s just a fact. So, that’s not going to really do much.

I think the most important thing is that we spend our summers in America. Also, the church that we go to is very diverse. So, I feel like I give here experiences and representations with people of colour and black people in the ways that I can and also in diverse books.

I think about this often. I grew up in a community that was black but the school my mum chose to send me to was mostly white. But I was able to get the representation from my family, through everything. Here, I have to be intentional with this. It’s not just going to come like it did in the States. In America, I feel like it’s in your face that black people are everything that white people are, from doctors to whatever. Here you have to be intentional about it.

So, you think a black child can thrive even if they live in a society surrounded by white people as long as their parents are intentional about getting that representation for them?

Exactly, 100% I believe that. That’s what I’m striving to do. I’m trying to be intentional and also confront things when they happen.  I chose to live here and I chose to raise my children here, so I have to do more of the work to allow a better situation for my kids and the kids to come that are of colour. I have to. That’s how I feel.

I have three children who are very young. I have to bring what I feel is right to the table. I can’t just shrink and say, “Well, it’s not my native country and it’s not my language so I have to adapt and adjust to things that are wrong.” When things are unjust, I have to speak out. That’s just in my DNA. I cannot not call out inequality, especially if it’s right in my face.

That’s really interesting because a lot of the times when I was in China, because I’m kind of that way as well, people would say, “but you chose to be here.” Almost like, “This is how things are. If you don’t like it leave. It’s not your place to try and change this country.” So, what do you think about that? Is there an element of truth there?

As humans, as a collective we’re always trying to do better and what happened with the Black Lives Matter movement and after the killing of George Floyd, there was a universal acknowledgement that we have to do better. For instance, the Black Lives Matter march, the first one in Austria, they thought there would be maybe 1,000 people. More than 50,000 people showed up for that march and the majority of them were white people. So, this new generation also wants change. They don’t want to follow hurtful and racist norms any longer.

I understand trying to respect the culture and I think that’s a valid argument in many ways but when it comes to hurting me, making other people feel a certain way based upon the colour of their skin, we have to do better and you have to push people forward. I understand the preservation of culture in certain ways but when that preservation is basically derogatory or racial injustice to another group of people that has to be called out by any means necessary.

Real change comes when you educate people and then they have the choice to work out their own bias or not work it out. Some people just want to remain ignorant. And that’s on them.

Danica

Do they receive your correction, your insight as a black woman? What sort of response do you get?

It’s mixed. I think because I speak German now, they receive it but if I would of spoken to them in English about it maybe not because it would have been received as this foreigner comes in and she doesn’t even have the respect to learn the language and then she’s trying to tell us something.

There’s always going to be people who aren’t going to receive me because I’m a woman or because I’m black. I’m not going to get through to those people. The people I’m trying to reach are those who really don’t want to be hateful and are “blissfully” ignorant. They don’t have any experience with any people of colour and they just don’t know. Real change comes when you educate people and then they have the choice to work out their own bias or not work it out. Some people just want to remain ignorant. And that’s on them.

I’ve heard you talk about the mirror and the window metaphor. Can you explain a bit about that?

It’s so important that children see themselves represented in books. As a parent living in a predominately white, homogenous culture the diverse books have been a tool for me that I’ve utilised to instil self-confidence.  A mirror is a story that reflects your own culture and helps you build your identity. That’s why for my kids when they see brown people, when they see interracial families in books, they build their identity and they feel confident. The window is a resource that offers a view into someone else’s experience. And it’s critical to understand, for students and children, that they cannot truly learn about themselves unless they also learn about others because we live in a global world. You do a disservice to your children when you don’t showcase them other cultures.

Do you think there are some diverse books that are more needed than others?

Even with Black history month, some of the books that are shown by some book bloggers, specifically white book bloggers, are always pressing the issue of slavery and reminding us of our history with slavery. Some of the books that I’ve seen promoted in the last weeks are discouraging because they don’t even talk about stories of triumph. They just focus on slavery. That’s part of our history but, for black people in America, that’s not where we started. We didn’t start as slaves. Our history was from Africa and we were taken and things were thrust upon us but we didn’t start there.

I think the books that should be promoted more and given more love and praise and winning the awards should be the diverse books about black people doing everyday things in positive situations.

When you break it down, this is the reason we still have so many injustices because people are always seeing black bodies and black representation with trauma attached to it and that’s not where we want to be. We don’t want to fall into this area where white people are comfortable. We want to get them comfortable with us riding a bike or seeing our grandmother in a story.

So, what would you say to the white person who has seen all that’s happened since George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement and they want to help but they feel powerless because they’re like, “If I post a black square people will say its tokenism. If I don’t, they’ll say I don’t care. And, I want to write this caption for an Instagram post but it might be misconstrued.” They want to help but they don’t know how to because sometimes it feels like there’s a lot of backlash if it’s done wrong. So, is there a “wrong” way to help?

I feel empathy towards people like this because there’s so much information out there and also a lot of conflicting information. There are so many people who I’ve spoken to who feel not only white guilt but they also white shame. They feel shame about being born white. That’s not right either.

My advice to white people who want to do the work of rooting out bias and hate is to really do the work inwardly. You don’t have to always post about it or do an Instagram story. The real work is done where no one sees. That might mean picking up a book and figuring things out. It could also be reflecting on the way you’ve treated certain black people.

Do that work inside first and then if you feel led to post, do it. Don’t feel pressured by others to post and don’t post just because it’s trending on Instagram because then that comes off as fake and it’s not genuine. Also, if you do post and it’s genuine don’t listen to people that are just trying to pick at you because there are always going to be haters. There’s always going to be people that are bad in every group trying to stir up stuff.

I read on one of your posts something about you saying you grandmother could never have imagined that you would be living the life you’re living in Austria. Can you speak a bit more about that?

My grandmother grew up in the South under Jim Crow laws. They had the white fountains, white bathrooms. And now my kids are able to have these experiences; my grandmother would just be like, “Is this even possible?”.  My daughter plays the violin and I took her to a summer violin camp. She was the only black girl. They were playing and I was crying. At that moment I could really feel my blackness but in a way that was from my ancestors and from everyone being like this is what we wanted. This is what we fought for. So that you could just have a daughter who happens to be black, playing the violin with other kids and no one is saying anything about the colour.

What impact do you think your diverse book content is having?

In my community in Austria there has been actual change from me working with different organisations and in schools and that has happened from my Instagram page on diverse books.

Also, every week I receive different messages from people saying this book really helped my daughter or thank you so much for creating this content and sharing lots of diverse books. My reason for doing it hasn’t changed from when I started- to hopefully bring awareness and appreciation. The big goal is that one day these books will just be seen as kid’s books, not as “diverse” books. And, seeing a black child in your book getting some ice-cream with Nana won’t be such a big deal it will just be how it is.

Connect with Danica and discover more diverse books on the Diverse Kids Lit Instagram page.